1
00:00:04,849 --> 00:00:02,600
okay now for our interview with dr. Gary

2
00:00:08,330 --> 00:00:04,859
Jackson I started by asking him his

3
00:00:11,990 --> 00:00:08,340
thoughts on paddocks motive okay yeah

4
00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:12,000
it's a little complex but I think

5
00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:14,210
there's a behavioral psychological

6
00:00:20,779 --> 00:00:17,369
reason maybe for what he did so I

7
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:20,789
practiced this with you know we all were

8
00:00:26,450 --> 00:00:23,730
all speculating here but at looking at a

9
00:00:29,359 --> 00:00:26,460
tremendous number of mass victim attacks

10
00:00:32,179 --> 00:00:29,369
plus terrorist attacks lets you know all

11
00:00:34,700 --> 00:00:32,189
kinds of attacks there is some similarly

12
00:00:38,090 --> 00:00:34,710
similarity here to other things I had

13
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:38,100
worked on so first of all when you look

14
00:00:50,270 --> 00:00:44,610
at the act itself this person killed 58

15
00:00:54,619 --> 00:00:50,280
people wounded you know 431 used you

16
00:00:56,959 --> 00:00:54,629
know 14 ar-15s with bucks box had other

17
00:00:59,810 --> 00:00:56,969
weapons in the room had a handgun

18
00:01:03,139 --> 00:00:59,820
committed suicide left no suicide note

19
00:01:05,359 --> 00:01:03,149
he just doesn't fit he did have a note

20
00:01:08,210 --> 00:01:05,369
with the directory and wind direction

21
00:01:12,050 --> 00:01:08,220
Amin shooting now what's really

22
00:01:16,670 --> 00:01:12,060
important in his case is he visited

23
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:16,680
before that other venues that had large

24
00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:18,930
festivals you know for example the often

25
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:21,810
hotel he visited not that long before

26
00:01:25,550 --> 00:01:24,570
that and that's where they had the life

27
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:25,560
is beautiful

28
00:01:33,999 --> 00:01:28,770
acceptable very similar 18 blocks this

29
00:01:36,620 --> 00:01:34,009
one was 15 many thousands of people and

30
00:01:38,539 --> 00:01:36,630
within shooting distance of the Ogden

31
00:01:41,990 --> 00:01:38,549
where he stayed as the Grand Hotel and

32
00:01:46,569 --> 00:01:42,000
Casino now that's the key here

33
00:01:49,730 --> 00:01:46,579
Cassini the Mandalay Bay Casino the

34
00:01:52,730 --> 00:01:49,740
Grand Casino which is next to where he

35
00:01:58,370 --> 00:01:52,740
stayed and scouted out this other

36
00:02:01,219 --> 00:01:58,380
festival now we've had many attacks and

37
00:02:04,300 --> 00:02:01,229
I'll take a close comparison to

38
00:02:07,459 --> 00:02:04,310
terrorism for a minute they don't care

39
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:07,469
who the target is it's just people they

40
00:02:12,990 --> 00:02:09,450
don't care if it's when the children you

41
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:13,000
know adults whatever they just

42
00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:16,330
means to an end so when I started

43
00:02:23,870 --> 00:02:19,420
looking at this seriously and but okay

44
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:23,880
if we look at this as a means to an end

45
00:02:32,430 --> 00:02:27,490
what could be the means to an end for a

46
00:02:35,699 --> 00:02:32,440
paddock and only may is not going to get

47
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:35,709
out of there his exit strategy obviously

48
00:02:42,690 --> 00:02:39,610
was suicide all the rifles he brought

49
00:02:45,630 --> 00:02:42,700
into that room were uploaded for killing

50
00:02:48,750 --> 00:02:45,640
including 14 with the bump stock and one

51
00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:48,760
handgun which he used to kill himself he

52
00:02:54,930 --> 00:02:52,090
bolted himself in no suicide note

53
00:02:59,910 --> 00:02:54,940
because he had no one to leave it to so

54
00:03:05,130 --> 00:02:59,920
here's the point I'm making the casino

55
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:05,140
he had lost approximately by reports one

56
00:03:11,190 --> 00:03:06,730
and a half million dollars over the past

57
00:03:14,460 --> 00:03:11,200
two years before the attack he had this

58
00:03:16,770 --> 00:03:14,470
long relationship with casinos but you

59
00:03:19,770 --> 00:03:16,780
can separate casinos into casino and

60
00:03:22,340 --> 00:03:19,780
people in minutes you know the people in

61
00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:22,350
the casino were his cohorts its peers

62
00:03:29,850 --> 00:03:25,930
and maybe even the few French he was not

63
00:03:31,110 --> 00:03:29,860
known to be friendly pretty much a loner

64
00:03:34,050 --> 00:03:31,120
in fact mean he went to the pits you

65
00:03:36,090 --> 00:03:34,060
know I played video Parker of poker he

66
00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:36,100
didn't play table poker and play video

67
00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:38,890
poker kind of section kept himself that

68
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:40,480
he had to go to that casino because that

69
00:03:48,870 --> 00:03:45,850
was clerks kind of home was so if we

70
00:03:53,310 --> 00:03:48,880
lost all of this money we're starting to

71
00:03:55,460 --> 00:03:53,320
see a potential motive that could be

72
00:03:58,949 --> 00:03:55,470
directed at a casino

73
00:04:00,150 --> 00:03:58,959
now if the casino I'm just cutting this

74
00:04:04,009 --> 00:04:00,160
really short there's a lot of

75
00:04:09,180 --> 00:04:04,019
complexities here if you lost money

76
00:04:11,729 --> 00:04:09,190
you're blaming the casinos what would be

77
00:04:16,949 --> 00:04:11,739
your motive how would you awkwardly

78
00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:16,959
divert that you know but you can create

79
00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:21,330
a massive massive violent attack in

80
00:04:26,490 --> 00:04:25,630
which they would lose revenue for a long

81
00:04:28,650 --> 00:04:26,500
time

82
00:04:30,450 --> 00:04:28,660
but people wouldn't want to go there and

83
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:30,460
gambol you wouldn't want to go there and

84
00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:34,330
visit because it's dangerous it's

85
00:04:36,990 --> 00:04:35,830
horrible thoughts think about this

86
00:04:37,980 --> 00:04:37,000
killing that happened to right across

87
00:04:43,790 --> 00:04:37,990
the street

88
00:04:48,390 --> 00:04:43,800
well that's what happened so afterwards

89
00:04:52,350 --> 00:04:48,400
MGM stock tanked the gym only Mandalay

90
00:04:58,410 --> 00:04:52,360
Bay their stock tanked other casinos

91
00:05:03,090 --> 00:04:58,420
along the strip went down in GM got sued

92
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:03,100
by victims and had to settle for eight

93
00:05:09,270 --> 00:05:06,130
hundred million dollars it took two

94
00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:09,280
years just to get back to the 95 percent

95
00:05:14,820 --> 00:05:12,850
level of the revenue that they had

96
00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:14,830
before the shooting I mean they really

97
00:05:18,990 --> 00:05:17,170
dragged for a long time the only thing

98
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:19,000
that saved them were their conventions

99
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:21,490
that when the largest convention been

100
00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:24,010
used in the world and the inventions

101
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:26,110
kept them alive not the gambling and not

102
00:05:31,409 --> 00:05:28,930
the hotel rooms the hotel rates dropped

103
00:05:33,870 --> 00:05:31,419
tremendously people just didn't want to

104
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:33,880
go there as well as the rest of the

105
00:05:42,390 --> 00:05:38,130
strip so that's a pretty powerful effect

106
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:42,400
from an act and that's why I think it

107
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:46,210
needs to be looked at I mean he he

108
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:48,130
prepared this he sent his girlfriend off

109
00:05:53,490 --> 00:05:51,130
two weeks before beaver surprise ticket

110
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:53,500
to the Philippines she left he sent her

111
00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:54,970
a hundred thousand dollars to buy a

112
00:05:59,909 --> 00:05:58,090
house there she was gone okay he started

113
00:06:02,760 --> 00:05:59,919
correcting everything before he went

114
00:06:07,050 --> 00:06:02,770
that's why we know it's suicide he paid

115
00:06:09,420 --> 00:06:07,060
off all the debts he had no debt if you

116
00:06:10,830 --> 00:06:09,430
wanted to leave clean and when you're a

117
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:10,840
gambler that's just the way you out

118
00:06:15,990 --> 00:06:12,730
great you don't have any decks you want

119
00:06:20,220 --> 00:06:16,000
to keep the debt free so he prepared

120
00:06:23,370 --> 00:06:20,230
this and if I'm correct and I don't know

121
00:06:25,530 --> 00:06:23,380
Cheyenne I practice that you wanted to

122
00:06:27,510 --> 00:06:25,540
make like you want make this look like

123
00:06:29,460 --> 00:06:27,520
the most violent act in the world that

124
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:29,470
many people could have been

125
00:06:35,130 --> 00:06:31,930
participating so you don't bring two

126
00:06:38,820 --> 00:06:35,140
guns you bring 20 some-odd weapons and

127
00:06:39,909 --> 00:06:38,830
put them in the room you put ammonium

128
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:39,919
nitrate fertile

129
00:06:45,489 --> 00:06:42,289
which leaders as an explosive in your

130
00:06:50,469 --> 00:06:45,499
trunk he put additional 13 rounds of

131
00:06:54,100 --> 00:06:50,479
ammo you shoot the deer by kerosene

132
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:54,110
tanks that were within reach fortunately

133
00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:55,610
didn't explode because it's kerosene

134
00:06:59,830 --> 00:06:57,289
they don't do that like gasoline and

135
00:07:02,800 --> 00:06:59,840
then you create this vicious horrible

136
00:07:07,779 --> 00:07:02,810
act that's going to keep people away for

137
00:07:09,909 --> 00:07:07,789
a very long time to get back so I'm not

138
00:07:11,559 --> 00:07:09,919
saying that's what happened I'm saying

139
00:07:14,769 --> 00:07:11,569
that that's a motive I think that has

140
00:07:16,390 --> 00:07:14,779
not been really looked at and I think it

141
00:07:19,659 --> 00:07:16,400
makes there's a better case for that

142
00:07:23,679 --> 00:07:19,669
than thinking gee he's thinking that

143
00:07:25,749 --> 00:07:23,689
this bank robber father in the 60s and

144
00:07:27,790 --> 00:07:25,759
just wants to make a name for himself a

145
00:07:32,309 --> 00:07:27,800
person he wants to make a name for

146
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:32,319
himself usually leaves a manifesto or a

147
00:07:39,329 --> 00:07:36,370
suicide note or makes it known somehow

148
00:07:42,700 --> 00:07:39,339
he just wanted to complete the act and

149
00:07:47,679 --> 00:07:42,710
leave that way in leaving damage in the

150
00:07:49,709 --> 00:07:47,689
lake that's one way I see it yeah I

151
00:07:54,070 --> 00:07:49,719
certainly agree with much of what you

152
00:07:56,439 --> 00:07:54,080
say it certainly seems as if his

153
00:07:59,230 --> 00:07:56,449
gambling had turned south he went from

154
00:08:01,749 --> 00:07:59,240
being a fairly consistent winner to a

155
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:01,759
very consistent loser and that's going

156
00:08:07,450 --> 00:08:06,050
to play on your emotions and your mental

157
00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:07,460
health to extent that he had any

158
00:08:12,100 --> 00:08:09,050
weaknesses in his mental health we know

159
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:12,110
that he was prescribed some medications

160
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:14,330
by his doctor we also know that his

161
00:08:18,369 --> 00:08:16,490
father was a well-known psychopath

162
00:08:21,700 --> 00:08:18,379
sociopath whatever you want to call it

163
00:08:24,369 --> 00:08:21,710
yeah and you also have eyebro I'd be

164
00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:24,379
curious to know do you think it's

165
00:08:31,450 --> 00:08:28,370
possible that paddock may have been

166
00:08:34,389 --> 00:08:31,460
slightly autistic you know he was a math

167
00:08:36,130 --> 00:08:34,399
whiz apparently and hence the reason why

168
00:08:39,100 --> 00:08:36,140
he was able to be successful at the

169
00:08:40,810 --> 00:08:39,110
machines but to be so glued in and

170
00:08:43,870 --> 00:08:40,820
focused on those machines for such an

171
00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:43,880
extended period of time in playing math

172
00:08:48,550 --> 00:08:46,910
playing the games to perfection which is

173
00:08:50,860 --> 00:08:48,560
what you need to do to be successful at

174
00:08:52,030 --> 00:08:50,870
those poker games I'm wondering if you

175
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:52,040
think the

176
00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:54,050
being slightly autistic could also have

177
00:08:59,370 --> 00:08:57,170
played in well that's interesting you

178
00:09:03,570 --> 00:08:59,380
can look at this as some characteristics

179
00:09:06,070 --> 00:09:03,580
you know where he was attached however

180
00:09:08,890 --> 00:09:06,080
there was no diagnosis of that in the

181
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:08,900
past the doctors had said he appeared to

182
00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:13,490
be lone but he was described as having a

183
00:09:18,220 --> 00:09:15,310
condition called alexithymia

184
00:09:21,550 --> 00:09:18,230
it's not a diagnosis it's a condition

185
00:09:25,510 --> 00:09:21,560
and it basically means you can't

186
00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:25,520
describe yourself there's no story about

187
00:09:29,890 --> 00:09:27,290
yourself you just don't know you don't

188
00:09:32,260 --> 00:09:29,900
have any insight you can't introspect

189
00:09:36,070 --> 00:09:32,270
and say what's wrong now that leaves you

190
00:09:37,870 --> 00:09:36,080
kind of cold and you know uncaring about

191
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:37,880
other people which allows you to create

192
00:09:44,890 --> 00:09:43,010
an act like this so he obviously was

193
00:09:48,340 --> 00:09:44,900
despondent he was described at the

194
00:09:49,990 --> 00:09:48,350
sonnet because he basically had lost so

195
00:09:52,150 --> 00:09:50,000
much money and money meant a lot to this

196
00:09:54,940 --> 00:09:52,160
guy he worked hard to do it he was a

197
00:09:57,520 --> 00:09:54,950
smart guy he had a degree in Business

198
00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:57,530
Administration and he worked for the

199
00:10:01,420 --> 00:09:58,010
government

200
00:10:06,370 --> 00:10:01,430
he was an IRS agent as well and he was

201
00:10:10,690 --> 00:10:06,380
an auditor of government contracts but

202
00:10:12,130 --> 00:10:10,700
he never had any legal problems didn't

203
00:10:14,890 --> 00:10:12,140
get in trouble with the law

204
00:10:17,560 --> 00:10:14,900
he kept pretty much to himself money

205
00:10:20,380 --> 00:10:17,570
seemed to be his focus he bragged about

206
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:20,390
it he bragged about having algorithms

207
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:23,210
that would allow him his outer image

208
00:10:28,090 --> 00:10:25,850
that would allow him to win at video

209
00:10:30,970 --> 00:10:28,100
poker which probably was true it's hit

210
00:10:33,430 --> 00:10:30,980
rate was pretty good for a long time he

211
00:10:35,140 --> 00:10:33,440
amassed quite a bit of money but he also

212
00:10:39,070 --> 00:10:35,150
amassed money you know working with his

213
00:10:41,050 --> 00:10:39,080
brother with real estate but that all

214
00:10:43,660 --> 00:10:41,060
kind of went away the last couple years

215
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:43,670
and that's that that means so much to

216
00:10:47,860 --> 00:10:45,530
you well what's interesting to me with

217
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:47,870
what I'm saying why did he just turn the

218
00:10:53,980 --> 00:10:49,610
gun around and start shooting inside of

219
00:10:58,540 --> 00:10:53,990
a casino because he loved the casino

220
00:11:01,830 --> 00:10:58,550
people you know there are some I think

221
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:01,840
some feeling based on his background of

222
00:11:05,910 --> 00:11:04,610
wanting to go to these casinos and play

223
00:11:08,639 --> 00:11:05,920
video poker my god

224
00:11:11,850 --> 00:11:08,649
could have played it at home but he had

225
00:11:13,639 --> 00:11:11,860
to be in that environment and wanted to

226
00:11:16,829 --> 00:11:13,649
be very much a part of that environment

227
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:16,839
but the casino leadership and senior

228
00:11:23,790 --> 00:11:19,600
casino management and ownership that's

229
00:11:25,379 --> 00:11:23,800
different and if I'm saying it's true

230
00:11:28,470 --> 00:11:25,389
that I'm not saying it is it's just

231
00:11:30,629 --> 00:11:28,480
another possibility I think that should

232
00:11:33,689 --> 00:11:30,639
be explored yeah well I think you

233
00:11:34,350 --> 00:11:33,699
certainly liked being treated as someone

234
00:11:36,090 --> 00:11:34,360
special

235
00:11:38,340 --> 00:11:36,100
I think you liked being treated as

236
00:11:40,620 --> 00:11:38,350
someone special and in that you feel

237
00:11:43,650 --> 00:11:40,630
when you're a VIP at a casino I mean

238
00:11:45,449 --> 00:11:43,660
even more so probably than at being a

239
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:45,459
VIP at any other Hotel you've got both

240
00:11:49,290 --> 00:11:47,680
the hotel that you're a VIP yet he had

241
00:11:50,610 --> 00:11:49,300
the casino that you're a VIP had in

242
00:11:52,350 --> 00:11:50,620
every restaurant at the casino that

243
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:52,360
you're a VIP at so you get to feel like

244
00:11:59,730 --> 00:11:57,010
a big shot and they gave him the rooms

245
00:12:01,590 --> 00:11:59,740
he got the rooms free right because he

246
00:12:04,290 --> 00:12:01,600
was a good customer right now that the

247
00:12:07,350 --> 00:12:04,300
rooms free food free yeah porting your

248
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:07,360
theory I think is the fact that it's my

249
00:12:11,340 --> 00:12:09,490
understanding that whether it was

250
00:12:14,310 --> 00:12:11,350
directly in response to his success or

251
00:12:17,250 --> 00:12:14,320
not that the casino had tightened up

252
00:12:19,740 --> 00:12:17,260
things a bit you know he relied on two

253
00:12:21,900 --> 00:12:19,750
things he relied on relatively loose

254
00:12:24,509 --> 00:12:21,910
machines with a very high payback

255
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:24,519
percentage not over a hundred percent

256
00:12:29,449 --> 00:12:27,850
but very close to it and then the perks

257
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:29,459
that you get because you get cash back

258
00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:32,050
with your players card and when you can

259
00:12:37,439 --> 00:12:34,690
combine your cash back with the high

260
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:37,449
payouts believe it or not

261
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:39,910
the payout on a video poker machine a

262
00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:41,920
high dollar machine can actually be over

263
00:12:46,139 --> 00:12:43,480
a hundred percent and I think that's

264
00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:46,149
what he probably was exploiting but that

265
00:12:52,139 --> 00:12:48,880
they had dialed some of those levers

266
00:12:55,230 --> 00:12:52,149
back and that would be something that

267
00:12:58,019 --> 00:12:55,240
would cause him to think hey yeah you

268
00:13:01,470 --> 00:12:58,029
you a-holes look what you did to me you

269
00:13:06,540 --> 00:13:01,480
know yeah finally some people bear-bear

270
00:13:09,170 --> 00:13:06,550
I've lost be cognitive exactly finally

271
00:13:14,340 --> 00:13:09,180
someone is able to win in your casino

272
00:13:16,769 --> 00:13:14,350
right now in a way in a smart way now on

273
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:16,779
the other side though you have to take

274
00:13:20,329 --> 00:13:18,490
into consideration that

275
00:13:23,639 --> 00:13:20,339
apparently he also scoped out

276
00:13:26,250 --> 00:13:23,649
Lollapalooza festival in Chicago in

277
00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:26,260
actually supposedly rented a room with a

278
00:13:31,199 --> 00:13:28,630
view that supposedly he canceled and

279
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:31,209
then on his computer there was Google

280
00:13:37,650 --> 00:13:33,010
searches about Santa Monica Pier and I

281
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:37,660
think Fenway Park yes yes but you know

282
00:13:42,650 --> 00:13:40,720
as a good strategist which as we can

283
00:13:45,690 --> 00:13:42,660
assume he kind of was I mean keeping

284
00:13:48,449 --> 00:13:45,700
notes in his room before the shooting on

285
00:13:51,570 --> 00:13:48,459
the wind direction and the trajectory

286
00:13:53,850 --> 00:13:51,580
that the the ammunition would be taking

287
00:13:56,730 --> 00:13:53,860
when fired shows that it really thought

288
00:13:59,100 --> 00:13:56,740
these things out and as we know about

289
00:14:02,490 --> 00:13:59,110
most that Matt's victim attacks

290
00:14:05,730 --> 00:14:02,500
typically terrorism is you have a lot of